Monday, July 10, 2006

Coocoo For Cocoa Puffs

I had my first experience with street witnessing on Friday night. A group of us went to the downtown core from 9:30pm til about 12:30am. This was prime time to meet people on the streets.

We followed The Way Of The Master, which is the same approach that is taught in at the Biblical School of Evangelism where I am currently enrolled. We gave out tracts to tons of people. Mostly we gave out an "IQ Test" tract which everyone enjoyed. If the people stopped to talk with us then we engaged them in a spiritual conversation which led them to understand their position as sinners. If they came to understand that and were wanting the solution that's when we share the Gospel with them. That's when they are prepared for God's Grace, and that's when we give all of it to them.

What an incredible experience. No one was offended. People wanted more and more of our tracts. We got to see people be convicted by the Holy Spirit and cry out to know what God had done for them to save them from Hell. Amazing. Edifying. Unforgettable.

The amazing thing about all of this is that witnessing has nothing to do with any skill or ability of the witnesser. You're only there to engage the person. The Holy Spirit truly does the rest. You need only stay on topic and not argue. You don't condemn the sinner, you simply lead him through the steps and let the Holy Spirit do it quietly in his own heart. When he realizes where he is and what he faces, all on his own, then you offer him the solution and let him reach for it.

As for rejection.... well we gave out a couple hundred tracts. In all of that there were a few people who didn't want one, and one guy we talked to who was drunk but nice enough told Ken he is "KooKoo For CooCoo Puffs". That's also something I doubt I'll ever forget.

Check out the great tracts that Living Waters Canada puts out.

14 comments:

Kevl said...

Actually Jesus did exactly what we were doing. Without the tracts mind you.

He met people. Spoke of natural things. Moved the conversation to the spiritual. Let the Law convict them. And then showed them grace.

People fall away, some 80-90% of "new believers" in fact because of the "new gospel" of easy believism. They don't come because they need to be saved from hell, they come because they want a new best friend. So when the trip gets hard they fall away.

Sorry to be short, but there is no subsitute for letting meeting people where they are, letting them be convicted and then offering them the salvation of Our Lord, crucified and risen.

Kevl said...

You don't "have to keep them in that mentality to keep them". The Holy Spirit indwells them if they are truly saved. They are "bought with a price". There is no falling away of the truly saved. It's a done deal.

The truly saved are "new creations" they are not subject to the Law of Sin and Death any more. They are under the undeserved grace of God.

I would not preach Law to a believer. The Law is for sinners, not saints. We are saints in Christ, but dead in our own flesh.

This does not mean a true Christian won't sin. They will, but with study of the Word they will be able to "die to self" properly and more consistantly as their walk progresses.

Kevl said...

Excellent point :)

This is where it becomes VERY important that you choose wisely when you leave tracts places. Check the ones I linked too. They don't leave a sinner hanging. They are not the typical "self righteous tract" and surely not the "jesus wants to make your life better" tract.

Kevl said...

To complete the point. The sinner needs to understand he is condemned by the Law. Then he needs to understand he is freed by the atoning blood of Christ Jesus. If he understands that payment for his sin had to be made, and that Jesus paid it for him - he'll never think that Jesus makes him feel bad.

Believers are redeemed and should never feel that Jesus makes them feel bad. He condemns no believer.

Kevl said...

Hey Joseph,

Sinners are not a believer's brother. The believer will love them none the less, yet they are still enemies of God. The Word calls them "Sons of Wrath" while it calls believers "Sons of God".

Why do you quote "let him who has no sin cast the first stone"? Where have I cast any stone? Or indicated that I would. The Law condemns, not I. We are here to give the gospel to the heart that has been prepared. We are not to preach grace to sinners. Grace is for saints. The Law is for sinners.

Christ came to fufill the Law. The Law is good when used lawfully. It is made for the sinner.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy%201:8-11;&version=9;

"But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust."

If I came up to you and said "Good News! This really nice guy paid a $25,000 fine for you!" You'd likely respond with "ok..... tell him thanks... I guess." Why? Because you don't even suspect you have a $25,000 fine.

To preach "Jesus died for your sins" to someone who doesn't see themselves personally as a sinner, who doesn't understand the condemnation they are under is pure foolishness. They won't reach for a savior because they don't think they need one. So then people say they don't want to "judge" them so I'll preach how much Jesus loves them... well the first time the "new believer" goes through a trial in life after that they begin to wonder if Jesus really does love them. When their son is killed in a car accident.. when their wife dies of cancer, slowly. The "new believer" has been sold a lie - that the role of Jesus is to make your life better. Read the Word to see if this is true. Surely the experiences of the Apostles will show you this is far from the case.

The modern gospel says "Jesus will make your life better. You should love Him."

The true Gospel says "You sin because you are a sinner. (not the other way around)You are going to have to face a Just and Holy God on Judgment day and account for every idle word, every thought, ever action of your entire life. Jesus loved you enough to die to pay the price for the sins you deserve to die for. You cannot earn your way out of death but Jesus paid it for you."

This is when the "Gospel" really does become "Good News!" Salvation isn't good news if you weren't going to die and go to hell.

One last thing, Jesus took all the sin of the world on Him at the Cross, as a sufficient atonement. However, the forgiveness of sins comes from confession of your sin to Him, belief IN Him. No one shares in salvation who has not confessed to God that they are a sinner and that Christ Jesus is the Son of God come in the flesh to fulfill the Law by dying on the Cross and raising again three days later. The Believer who confesses this is now IN Christ. Bought with a price and no longer under the Law of Sin and Death. They are now freed, where before they were in bondage to sin. One must never preach freedom to someone in chains they themselves are unable to break. What torture it would be to still be chained and think you’re supposed to be free.

Kevl said...

As though my above wasn't long enough I left out something important.

People really are dying without salvation and are going to hell for eternity. This is not "destruction" but eternal torment.

I am more than willing to let someone be uncomfortable for a few moments inorder to have them cry out for the Savior. Whom I know answers these calles faithfully.

Those who die without Him are parishing. There are many who have, and will die after a lifetime of calling Him "Lord, Lord" and yet He never knew them and they too will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

It's a heart issue. The heart doesn't get convicted by "Jesus loves you". Though He does more than you and I could begin to understand.

Kevl said...

Hey again Joseph, let me start with this. I'm very much enjoying this conversation. This post is getting long. Forgive me if it doesn't sound to personal I am pretty tired.

Lust is personified because Sin is personified as an active participant in our flesh. I'm thinking of Paul's writings mostly when I think of Sin being personified. I believe the lable or specific sin can be personified in exactly the same fashion.

I'm going to respond in the order you've written it - because I'm exhausted. :) LONG Bike ride.. broke down.. fun stuff. :)

Heb 2:7 The word interpreted as angels is actually the Greek word "aggelos" Strong's Number G32. "a messenger; especially an “angel”; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger." Not elohim. I was a bit surprised to see you write that and had to go check for myself.

That being said I was right with you up to where you say that "there are no chains holding anyone." This is true if you are only speaking of the Body of Christ - but the whole world is not in the Body of Christ (The Church), only those who have believed.

Some true believers do distance themselves from God because of troubles, however true believers never "fall away". People who confessed Christ but never truly believed fall away all the time. They were never saved. Such as Judas.

There is "duality" in the Christian's life because the old flesh while spiritually dead is carnally alive. We must live in it, but not be of it. It will never get "better" it will always be as evil as it was before we were saved. It is the process of learning to die to self and abide in Christ that makes mature Christians "seem" different than immature ones.

About using the 10 commandments. They are still in effect for those who have not been Justified. (we are Justified, Sanctified and Redeemed in Christ at the point of Salvation - instantly)

Christ used the 10 commandments every time He witnesses to a sinner. Not all of them at once, but some part of them each time.

The woman at the well - adultry. The rich man - idoltary.

I could go on but this is not the point. Grace is only ever given to those who are already broken and humble. No sinner is humble.

Never does a Christian have to condemn anyone. I don't need to say "you're going to hell because you touch yourself at night." I simply take the person through some of the 10 commandments and the Spirit will reveal to them their state.

IE when witnessing to a homosexual you don't say "You're going to hell because of your homosexual behavior" That may be one of the reasons but you have no right to point out the speck in his eye until you have removed the plank from your own. "cast the first stone if you are sinless". INSTEAD you take him through the 10 commandments. The Spirit will speak to his heart - YOU can't speak to his heart. He will see that no matter about his sexual practices he is bound for Hell anyway.

NONE of us have kept the 10 commandments. Not one.

SO now that the person sees it's not about A issue but it's really about an inability to save one's self they are ready to reach out to the only one who can save them.

So to answer your end question - which btw is exactly the same question everyone who uses a "man centered" gospel asks - NEITHER.

I use the same method that Christ used. I let the Spirit reveal to the inside of the person their true state and THEN I show them all the grace that Christ gave us.

I never condem a person- infact if I did they would not look for a savior because MY condemnation is meaningless. Only the wrath of a Just and Holy God requires a savior to avoid. If it's ME condemning them they can just avoid me on the street from now on. They can not avoid God, we all have our appointed day to stand before Him and give account for ourselves.

Fear of God is the begining of all wisdom.

To tell someone that is bound for Hell that "everything is great and lovely" is to lie to them. God DOES love them. He doesn't want them to go to hell. But this is serious stuff. They have to honestly confess their true nature to God in order for forgiveness to be theirs.

There is no condemnation IN Christ. However, we need to be sure we are IN Christ before we can be sure there is no condemnation for us.

Kevl said...

Hey you should give this a lesson.

It's almost an hour long if I remember correctly but it's WELL worth the time.

http://www.wayofthemaster.com/mp3/tape01.m3u <-- Hell's best kept secret. No it's not a message about hell, but about how evangelism should be done. I think you'll enjoy it.

Kevl said...

That's cool.

I've been witnessing for 17 years and I've seen the lack of fruit of "Jesus loves you". I've seen people go up to alter call after alter call after alter call.

Actually, the Way of The Master "method" (for lack of a better word) does not spread the Law. The Law gets used for maybe 10 minutes and then the person is given Grace. The Law now has no place in that person's life.

Every other "method" for witnessing that I've seen has been man centered. How clever can I be? How original can I be? How attractive can I make this? How clearly can I show His love? How clean a life can I live? and on and on.

God doesn't need you to be any of those things to save souls. In fact The Gospel is not attractive to the world. The world hates God. The world sees the Gospel as foolishness. There's nothing I can do to overcome that, the world is bigger than I am. But, the world is not bigger than God the Holy Spirit.

The Law shuts the mouths of the prideful. I don't have to overcome anyone's argument.

I have for SO long thought the "issue" was Evolution vs Creation. This is a very interesting field of study for me, and it does help people feel safe in thier faith.

However, how much sense does it make to argue with a man, blind since birth, about the color Blue? He can't see it. Never has been able to. No matter how convinced he is that I can see it he still can't. The ONLY solution is to let the Great Phycian give him sight so he can see it for himself.

It's a heart issue. We have to get to the heart. It's a scary place to go. Believe me. Yet, this is exactly what Christ did while He was here. He didn't argue with people about anything. He asked them questions that revealed their own hearts.

I will surely engage in conversation about Creation again. However, it will no longer be my evangelism tool. It relies too much on my own cleverness, on my own study. How good I am at arguing.

The Holy Spirit doesn't care how good I am at anything. How clean my life has been, or not, nor how well I speak or write. If I am willing to stop and speak with someone and just get them to open up for a moment. He does what needs to be done.

You would be amazed at the response people give you. I have been speaking about Jesus for 17 years and people run, hate, get angery argue... it's crazy. Yet if I just do it the way He did they never feel like I'm judging them - because I'm not. They choose freedom or they don't in the end I've done all that I'm required to do.

OK so last thing, the Church has been given "The Great Commission". We've only been told to do two things here on Earth. Remember the Lord's Death at His table, and spread the Gospel. Nothing else should ever come before those two things. Anything else that forwards those two things is worthy as long as the workers aren't kept from their primary task by them.

Think of a fire fighter who sat in his truck calling His Mom who was short on money and scared. He spoke of how much he loves her and that he'd stop by after he got off work. The conversation took less than 10 minutes. It was quick and she felt much better after it.

However, later that evening the fire fighter was arrested. He was speaking to her in the truck across the street from a burning apartment building. In the short time he was on the phone a family, father, mother, son and daughter was burned to death.

He was doing a "good thing" by calling his mom. However, because he was busy doing good things instead of the primary task he'd been given a family perished.

That's not ment to be a "guilt trip" it's ment to show that all the other things that churches do are "good" yet they are not always helpful for our true job in the world.

Kev

Kevl said...

You have missed the point of sin.

Sin is the transgression of God's Law.

That's it.

The price to be paid for it is death.

The price had to be paid because God is Just.

We couldn't pay the price. So God paid it for us, because He is Love.

Those who are saved are freed from the Law. The Law makes no man free, it simply leaves us condemned.

Every single person is under the Law no matter what idol they choose to bow down too.

It's not a work of man, it's a work of God.

When you ask someone if they have kept the 10 commandments the Spirit speaks to them. It's not about me, it's not about their oppinions. The Spirit speaks to their heart. It doesn't matter who or what they are. It's not a work of man.

Kevl said...

Hey I just sat down to email someone and I got a notice that you had posted. I really haven't been sitting here waiting for you to reply.. really I haven't... really.

hehehe

Well putting the joviality of the above away for a moment. There is only one true God. Jesus said "no one comes to the Father except by Me."

There is only one God, and one Heaven. There is only one plan for salvation and that is Christ Jesus. Anyone who denies that has no place in Heaven. This includes people of any other faith or lack of faith.

The man you quoted the Word on from Matt 19 broke the 1st commandments. Jesus exposed this to him that he had actually not kept the ten commandments at all.

He had broken the very first one. "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2020:3-17;&version=9;

The man worshiped mammon, money. He went away sad because he knew he could not give up the money. Jesus knew this of course, as He knows all of us through and through. He knew what to ask to expose this man's sin. He asked him to sell all his possessions and give all the money away.

It is not a requirement to sell all your possessions to be saved. This question exposed the sin it was designed and purposed to expose.

Had the man humbled himself before Our Lord, He would have given the man grace. But the man did not, he chose his money and possessions over God.

We get to be in the same position as Christ was that day when we witness. Jesus didn't accuse the man of anything. All He did was ask questions. The man was convicted in his own heart. He responded to that as his own heart led him too. Today, when we witness we get to see this conviction. And if the person wants the solution, the very solution that God Himself gave we offer the person Grace beyond understanding.

When the person truly sees their state and seeks the savior, He responds. We are simply there to "witness" it. I never thought of it that way before, but that's the thing. We start out being a witness of Christ, and we end up witnessing someone's Salvation.

Kevl said...

btw did you really mean Psalm 5:8?

"Lead me, O LORD, in thy righteousness because of mine enemies; make thy way straight before my face. "

I don't see the connection.

Kevl said...

You are not separating Christians from non-Christians.

Not all are saved.

The Law is for sinners, and it is DEADLY. It condemns them all to eternal punishment in Hell.

The Creation spoken of in Romans 8 is all of God's creation. The Earth, Stars, Water, Plants, Animals. It is all in the pains before birthing. It is suffering the effects of the Curse. This is why bad things happen to "good" people. The birthing pains it is experiencing right now are those leading up to Christ's return. Like a mother expecting.

God does work all things for the good of those who love Him. Things that are painful - of which I am very familiar - and things which are not painful. But the key is, for those who love Him.

To be more than conquerors means we do not conqueror anything. We are already Victors sharing in the victory of Christ Jesus over Sin and Death. His finished work at the Cross. His triumphant resurrection three days later. Because we are not subject to these things anymore we do not need to conquer anything. We struggle with principalities not with the flesh. It is ours to look at the world from our position in Christ, not to look from our flesh up to Christ.

Those who are IN Christ are free. Those who are not in Christ are yet in bondage, and destined for eternal torment.

Heading out for dinner with my lovely wife, who's birthday it is today. I've had a very rough day, and I'm sure some of that may have spilled into my language here. I fell down the stairs and had to put the banister back up... the wall was damaged and it was very rough. 5 hours later it's finally up. Please accept my apology for the tonality of my responses.

Kev

Kevl said...

I only have a few moments but I'll respond now, and hopefully again later.

The muscles all up and down my left side are pulled, mostly my shoulder... oh well that worked out for the best as well... we ended up going out to eat and there was someone there to be witnessed too.

There is a point of witnessing through how we live. Through how we interact with people. This is "general witnessing" ( like General Revelation - where all of Creation reveals the Creator) We should all be doing this.

Where this falls down is this. If it takes an hour to get to know someone and to influence their life, and they get hit by a bus 30 minutes into the process they are going to perish in Hell.

The difference, the separation if you will, between Christians and non-Christians is we are saved, they are not. We are safely in Christ (it's He that lives not I) and they are in bondage to sin. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit marked and destined to enter eternal fellowship with God. They are yet heading for condemnation, eternal punishment. This should seriously motivate us. If someone were getting in a car to drink and drive we'd do just about anything to make them stop. We really wouldn't worry if they were offended, we're trying to save them. But what will most Christian's do for the unsaved, the perishing? They will invite them to BBQ's, go shopping with them, hang out with them, every now and then drop "hints" about Jesus, we pray for them earnestly night after night, week after week, year after year.... mean while 150,000 people die every day - most of whom die without Christ. If this doesn't eat at our hearts we surely need to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Corinthians%2013:5&version=9


Non-Christians who have never heard of the 10 commandments are convicted by the Holy Spirit just as much as those who have heard of them. People who are SURE they are not underthem, that they are foolishness are convicted by them. People desperately appossed to them are convicted by them. You'd be amazed. You start a conversation with them, it's light hearted, jovial even. Once the conviction starts they get quiet, intent. I've seen a person begging to know what God did for them. This person who only moments before had been completely carnal.

I sympathize with your point of view because I held a similar one. I surely didn't believe that this kind of evangelism would work - or that people would even stand for it. I tell you the world is ripe for the harvest. It's time to stop tending the fields and start reaping them!

King Solomon. I laughed at "say what you want about Solomon - he illustrates the point." What a mess he turned into eh? Wisest of men... oops.

You describe the issue of Stewardship. And what you say is true. However, we must also be good stewards with the Gospel. We've been told to spread it to every creature.

Paul also spoke of the churches he and Apollos (I seldom spell his name correctly) planted saying to the effect (I don't have it memorized and don't have time to find it) one man sows and another waters.

Those who respond to the Gospel do get discipled. Not always by myself but by someone.