'BUT' Theology - Part 5 - Conclusion

Picture removed to spare those
who are prone to stumble.

This Part 5, and the conclusion, of my response to the sermon preached by Pastor Norm Millar at Harvest Bible Chapel in London Ontario on 26 Sept 2010 entitled "Knowing Where You Stand With Jesus." If you have come directly to this post, please read Part 1 first because the context of Pastor Millar's sermon is fully explained there and mostly in his own words. Then read Part 2 which covers most of his strongest arguments. Part 3 also deals with a large number of textual arguments, most of which the Pastor made in passing. Part 4 dealt with a number of passages where the Pastor added his own words to the Text, and skipped some important information that the Lord gives us in His words. 


I'm just going to pick up where we left off last time, because this last article may be the longest yet! Pastor Millar begins the home stretch of his sermon applying John 14:15 to the life of people who profess to have faith in Jesus Christ.

“Here’s five simple questions you need to ask yourself and examine yourself with the answer to.. now, now please hear me… I’m not saying if you fail these you’re not saved. I can’t say that about you, you can’t say that about me. We don’t see each other’s heart. I would never, Lord willing, say you’re not saved. I might say you look like you’re not saved.

When I do funerals I try to be very careful. But sometimes there’s so much fruit and so much evidence it’s like man I really really really believe they’re saved. But I’m not the judge of that, so I’m not saying you’re not. I’m saying examine your own heart before the Word of God.

Here’s just five simple tests.”

To be fair, the prime thrust of his argument is that he can’t judge your salvation and you can’t judge his. BUT (that’s for Look Up) the fact remains that when the chips are down and he’s doing the funeral of someone he knows, and who has “so much fruit and so much evidence” he’s not able to say they are saved.  You’ll see in his five questions that he sets the bar VERY low.. is there “any glimmer” of what he asks you to test for… but when there is “so much” he can’t say that salvation has occurred? To be blunt… if the test can’t be trusted then it is not of God.

Now I have written in the last couple of parts of this series that this part would start out with me agreeing with Pastor Millar. Perhaps I should have thought about that a bit more before I wrote it. I’ll start agreeing with him now… which is close to the start.. but not exactly the start.

Now here's his 5 question test.

1. Do you have conviction over your sin?

He goes on to talk about how the Scriptures say that the Lord disciplines all those who are His, and those who are not disciplined are “illegitimate sons.” Shockingly I agree with this… it is Biblical. Heb 12:3-11 However, the presence of what might appear to be conviction doesn’t indicate Eternal Salvation – because any number of things can convict us of behaving poorly. The law of the land, our peers, our family, our up-bringing. This is not an accurate indicator of Salvation… but if you are in fact saved and God’s Spirit indwells you then you will be convicted of your sin. That is until you seer your conscience…. And forget that your sins were cleansed… What’s more, Hebrews 12 makes no sense in the Lordship Salvation theology. If you truly have saving faith then you will obey… you don’t need to be trained to obey, it’s part of your faith.

OK the agreement portion of this article is now concluded, I hope it was worth the wait.

2. Do you have any desire for Jesus? “is there any sort of kindling of love in your heart?” “maybe it’s just a light flame, but is there any sort of desire in your life for Christ?”

He references Phil 3 very quickly, saying “it talks about this” but he moves quickly away from the question. I really don’t know how this can determine if you are saved or not. I find the contrast between “so much fruit” and “is there any sort of…” here to be disturbing. How can he preach such differing standards? I don’t get his point and I’m not sure it’s important.

3. Do you see evidence of growth in your life?

Again this is about maturity not determinative of if you have been Born Again or not. Does a plant grow when it is choked out by weeds? Does a plant grow when it is starved for food? Does a plant not growing mean it isn’t a plant? The constant confusion of discipleship with salvation is a great cause of offense to the Scriptures by Lordship Salvation proponents.

One notable departure from some other Lordship Salvation proponents is heard here though. He speaks of how “we” can struggle with the same sin over and over. I’m not sure how tshis fits with the rest of his theology, but at least he is not making all the mistakes that most Lordship Salvation proponents make.

4. Are you growing even a little more humble or teachable?

This is an interesting one as well. For in my inbox I have an email from one of the Pastors on his staff, who has been a dear close friend – as much a brother to me as anyone could possibly be – for about 15 years. That email says that he will not devote any more study time to the subject of Lordship Salvation. I have troubled the man very little with this subject. I offered him a single email that detailed all the good resources I knew to help him. He responded with a note about having read the foolish writings of Zane Hodges – instead of the good and credible resources I offered. Also on my kitchen counter are two boxes with books I paid for and sent to him. Lou Martuneac’s In Defense of the Gospel and Dr. Fred Lybrand’s Back To Faith. He emailed me when he received them offering three options. He could return them to Amazon, send them to me or dispose of them himself.

Are you growing even a little more humble and teachable? I’m sorry but I can’t take this question seriously. I’m also not sure it has anything to do with determining whether a person is saved or not.

Please forgive me the personal intrusion into this series. The influence of this Pastor drew my best friend away from the Gospel of Christ to another that is no gospel at all.  The personal aspects neither validate nor negate the truthfulness of his message or my challenge of it. Please determine the validity by the Scriptures alone.

5. Do you have a love for the world? “That’s not good.”

He notes immediately after asking that we all love the world at times, and asks:

“…but is that who you are? Or are you being renewed in your minds? Or how about this are you offering yourself daily as a sacrifice?”

Where in Scripture is salvation conditioned on “offering yourself daily as a sacrifice”? One might read Romans 12 and find that this is optional for a Believer, that it is something we ought to do – as our rightful service, not something that all true Believers will do.

This is where he tells his listeners to read 1John for more “tests” and we dealt with that last time in Part 4 of this series, because it fit better there.

Here he says that if you fail his test;

“there’s a good chance that you do not know God and you do not belong to Him.”

Next the Pastor offers two more questions. Do you know Jesus? Which he breaks out a number of scenarios… basically he wants to know how well you know Jesus. Do you spend time with Him? Can you tell me all about Him?

I’m at a loss to find where Scripture conditions my salvation on how well I know Christ. 1Cor 15 tells me that if I receive the Gospel – that He died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, was buried and rose again the third day according to the Scriptures that I am saved. Not if I know lots and lots about His life….

Then he asks what he says is the most important question – Does Jesus know you? This is where he brings up that those in Mat 7 who call Him “Lord, Lord” are truly mindful of the Lordship of Christ. He says:

“These people are really thinking ‘He’s my Lord!’”

 “They profess a relation ship with Him ‘We believe in You’” and goes on to remind us that He never knew them." 

Again, he adds his own theology into the words of the Lord. How can you do this? Especially in THIS of all sermons?

It’s true that if the Lord does not know you, you are not going to get into Heaven. But you don’t know if the Lord knows you by your works. You know it by having received the Gospel of Jesus Christ. 1Cor 15:1-11 tell us this clearly.

Now here is your listening assignment, and I’m being serious. Please listen to the man preach. At this point in the sermon you will hear what is either a performance worthy of lofty awards… or a broken heart desperate for those who are listening to respond to his sermon.

I think it’s a broken and desperate heart. I’ve listened to this sermon some 15 times now. As enraged as his abuse of the Text can make me, at this point my heart softens and my emotions melt and I ache for the man.

Please start listening at 37:40 thru to the end of this 43 minute sermon. You can find the recording here. The Pastor asks his worship band to come up and play a song. These guys are wonderful players. When I have been at Harvest London I’ve delighted by how well these people play.  He tells the people to pray the words of the song… or sit there silently examining themselves…

How can you pray to God and hear what God is telling you and revealing to you while a rock band is playing in front of you?  This is nothing more than guided emotionalism. It has nothing to do with seeking God.

The recording then jumps ahead and you hear the emotive music playing and the Pastor starts to speak again, now very emotional. He starts offering his solution, or rather solutions to those who failed the test. Please listen to him preach this, and consider these question – what doesn’t he say? What’s missing?

Here are the things he tells people to do, after having said there’s nothing they can “do.”

“If you’ve examined yourself and you’ve failed the test. You don’t have to do something. You have to come to the cross and fall at the foot of the cross.”

“Maybe you haven’t surrendered. Listen believing is; I turn fully and completely from myself and everything…… Trusting in myself…doing it my own way… all my own ideas and I just surrender. I open myself I just turn to Christ and it’s all Him.  It’s a faith.. it’s a believing.. it’s a following”

With 2 minutes left in the sermon He starts to pray to the Father. When he gets to those who have failed the test he prays;

“That this would be the time, right here right now they’d be willing to repent and turn fully from their sin and turn to serve a living and true God. To just let go of everything and hand it over to Christ.”

He goes on to tell the Father that is “our desire” to have this play out in all areas of our lives. I have to say “That’s a lot of doing for the people to do who he says ‘don’t have to do something.’”

So we’ve reached the end of the sermon. What’s missing? 

THE GOSPEL IS MISSING. 

Other than a vague reference to coming to and falling down at the foot of the cross we have no preaching here that God’s wrath has been propitiated by Christ’s death. Much earlier in the sermon he also noted that knowing Jesus died for your sins ought to humble you. We have not told that justice has been satisfied for our sins in this sermon. This man puts a crowd in fear of their eternal life, and holds back the only hope they could have! 

WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN NOTHING TO PUT OUR FAITH IN!

Here's what the Apostle Paul wrote in Romans 1:16-17 

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

Do you hear the words of the Apostle here? The Gospel is the power of God to salvation for EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES. The just shall live by faith! Not by obedience. Not by faith + works. Not by a faith that works. The just shall live by faith!

In Romans 4:1-6

What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?  For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.  For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,  just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

Notice please that the Apostle did not write "But to him who does not work but has a belief that works on Him.... his faith that works is accounted for righteousness..... to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works." BUT this is what the Pastor would have you believe the Apostle meant! There's a faith that does nothing he says, and it is a false faith. A true saving faith is a faith that does something, that changes you, that works, that loves, that perseveres....

He started out saying shocking words “It’s all of grace and it’s all of faith. It’s believing. We affirm that completely BUT…” He went on many times to assure us that he doesn’t add works or obedience to the Gospel. But when he gets to the point of his sermon where he knows many people are doubting their salvation what does he tell them about? What they must DO. He doesn’t tell them that their sins have been paid for! He doesn’t tell them that Christ died for their sins and rose again victoriously so that we can have life! He doesn’t tell them to put their faith in Christ. He tells them to “repent of their sin and turn to serve a living and true God” 

What religion is this?

Friends. Beloved. Jesus Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures. He died and was buried, then rose to life again the third day according to the Scriptures. He was seen alive and in the flesh by MANY brethren for MANY days. By this we know that God has accepted His sacrifice on our behalf and if we believe this we are in fact saved because we have believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

What does God say about sermons like this? Read the book of Galatians to find out explicitly. Read it out loud. Preach it to yourself. Preach it to the wind as though it could hear! Preach it to Harvest Bible Chapel in London. Preach it to Pastor Norm Millar. Preach it, for it is true.

Paul declared what the Gospel is, that Gospel which he received from Christ Himself and that ALL the Apostles preached, and what EVERY SINGLE truly saved believer hangs his or her hope on in 1Cor 15:1-11. Beloved, if this is not your hope then you are not saved. I don’t have to waffle on this whatsoever. I don't have to change the meanings of passages, skip verses and insert my own thoughts and words. It is the truth. If the Gospel is your hope, you are saved. If it is not, then you are not.

Pastor Millar commented on Part 1 of this series saying that he would not be returning to my blog. Likewise I will not be returning to listen to any more of his preaching. 

A false gospel is poison to Believers, and to the world.

I’ll close with Galatians 1:6-9

I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.  But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.  As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. 

'BUT' Theology - Part 4

Image removed
to spare those who may stumble.

This Part 4 of my response to the sermon preached by Pastor Norm Millar at Harvest Bible Chapel in London Ontario on 26 Sept 2010 entitled "Knowing Where You Stand With Jesus." If you have come directly to this post, please read Part 1 first because the context of Pastor Millar's sermon is fully explained there and mostly in his own words. Then read Part 2 which covers most of his strongest arguments. Part 3 also deals with a large number of textual arguments, most of which the Pastor made in passing.

This sermon is intended to apply John 14:15 to the life of someone who professes to have faith in Jesus Christ. Pastor Millar asks you to examine yourself to see if you are in fact in possession of saving faith. I have been taking issue with the Pastor's interpretation of many passages, and definitely with his view of how someone knows if they are saved or not. I will cover his solution to those who fail the test he administers from the pulpit, and what I believe Scripture has to say about all of this as I conclude the series in Part 5. We have already covered a lot of ground, and in this part we will examine  how he applies three more passages of Scripture. Having completed this task we will have looked at all the support he cites for telling people to evaluate their salvation by their obedience.

Picking up where we left off last time. Pastor Millar speaks about a typical "professing Christian" and then states that the day before was notable for being a less than ideal day for his audience to have followed him around.

"If you followed me yesterday, oh man...."

Again I ask; how could that be? If you're a true "Christ Follower" then you'll obey His commands right? And if you're obeying His commands then you ought not be wary of having people watch you. Some will say that the man is simply being humble and graceful. They'll say that his embarrassment is probably over something which we would think of as very small. However, here is where the sermon starts to loose even it's philosophical power. How small can disobedience be that it does not require death? Is there a level of disobedience that is not  so evil that Christ had to be crucified to propitiate God's wrath for it?

"We're not talking about perfection, we're talking about a direction."

"You will obey Me, not every day...."

"Seasons of disobedience"

Please forgive me for being flippant but I guess the results of this "test" the Pastor is administering are greatly dependent on when you take it. 

He continues;

"We are talking bout some change. Some desire. Somethings happening."

Is this what the Lord said in John 14:15? "If you love Me you will have some desire to obey My commandments." I'll let you draw your conclusions. I'm sure there are some who think this is perfectly reasonable. Others will be offended by how flexible the Inspired Text appears to be in the Pastor's mouth.

He goes on and cites a book that his Pastor of Local Missions provided to him about the stats of people in Christendom (he means all the people who call themselves Christians). He gives a number of statistics about how poorly professing Christians seem to conduct themselves, at least based on the statistics he presents. I don't need to get into each stat, but there is one interesting one.

"Only 6% of Born Again Christians Tithe."

Whoah. That's a big topic...and probably one I should dive into at some point. Remember the Pastor is administering a TEST to his audience (congregation and untold numbers of online listeners) so they can determine IF they are actually saved or not. Perhaps this stat is presented to show that 94% of people who profess to be saved are not obeying Christ's commandments?


I have to ask the question, is there a single biblical record of Born Again Christians Tithing? Is there a single instruction to Christians in the Bible to Tithe? When the Pastor introduced John 14:15 at the beginning of his sermon he wondered if people even knew what commandments the Lord was talking about. Likewise, before you answer about Tithing I want you to determine if you know what Tithing actually IS, how it is actually DONE, and then determine if Christians do this or not.

The real important thing to detail is that the Pastor is saying it's a problem with our faith, or the Gospel we preach that is causing this problem in "Evangelicalism." He is presenting a logical fallacy known as a False Dilemma. Which is to say, he is not allowing his audience to consider all the possible sources of the problem. Might the problem be with how Evangelicalism is structured and run? Since discipleship, biblical correction and biblical separation are marginalized in a system where "if you don't obey you're not saved" there is no effective means to disciple a person. They are simply either obediently saved, or disobediently lost. If there is no effective discipleship there will be very little victorious living.

He says;

“There's something wrong...."

He's absolutely correct, though not in the context he meant it in. There's something wrong when those who God has cleaned are called dirty Acts 11:4-15, and those who God has freed are dragged into bondage. Gal 5:1 I'm getting ahead of myself, and we should get to the final textural arguments offered in the sermon.

Pastor Millar reads through and interprets most of Mat 7:13-26 He explains that we all understand that Jesus is “the Way” and the Gate of vs 13 & 14. His interpretation shows up starting at vs 15. 

Beware of the false prophets – these are people who profess to be Christian, believers, God followers, but they’re not they come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly they’re ravenous wolves.

Now look at vs 16 You will recognize them… by what? By what they say they are? By their fruits. How they live.  He says are grapes gathered from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? So every healthy tree bares good fruit but the diseased tree bares bad fruit. If you love me you will keep my commandments. If you truly love me there will be some fruit there. There will be some evidence of God in your life.

Look at vs 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. Vs 21 Not everyone, these are shocking words, not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

In his speech he connects Vs 21 to the previous verses, instead of the introduction of a new teaching point as most of us will be familiar with. What I find most amazing about how the Lordship Salvation proponent will use this verse is that they must truly expect us to just take their word for it. Do they think we will not open the Bible and read it for ourselves? 


This Pastor says he's not adding works to the Gospel, and that he's not talking about "perfection" but a "direction" in your life. Then he uses this verse - with is about FALSE PROPHETS not "False Believers"... it's about false prophets or those who give false witness to what God has said and done, and/or what He will do - to test people's salvation. And in so doing leaves out Vs 18. I cannot speak for the man's intentions, but as much Lordship Salvation spinning and twisting of the Scriptures as I have read over the years even I can't imagine how you could make "A good tree cannot bare bad fruit" anything less than sinless perfection - IF it does mean as the Pastor teaches "how they live their lives." If a "good tree" cannot "bare bad fruit" and a "good tree" is a "true Christ follower" (a true Christian in the Pastor's thinking) and bad fruit is sin - then the true Christian cannot sin. Of course I do not believe this for a second, and even Lordship Salvation proponents can't sell this to their people. So they are left with having to skip some verses and heavily interpret others. 

He’s talking about at a future time at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven but the one who does the will of My Father who is in Heaven. On that day, on Judgment Day, On that day many.  It’s just got to break your heart.  Many…  will say to me Lord, Lord did we not prophecy in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name and do many might works in Your Name?

OK as some who have listened to the sermon and emailed me know, I have decided to allow this man grace for getting a few things mixed up... because I can't honestly say that his slip ups were intentional. However, it is completely unthinkable that a trained, mature, Pastor who dares to teach God's Word would confuse the Judgment Seat of Christ with the Great White Throne Judgment.  Here's some more thoughts on this subject. Check out 1Cor 3:10-15 for a bit about the Judgment Seat of Christ. Notice that it does not AT ALL match what the Pastor taught. What's more it speaks of what those Christians who pervert the Gospel of Christ can expect to receive for reward at Judgment.

Now here is how he explains to his audience what the Lord is teaching in Mat 7:21-23.

In other words – Did we not serve at Church? Were we not part of the team? Did we not give money? Did we not help out? Lord, Lord did we not profess to be a follower of yours? That’s what He’s saying. Lookit Jesus all these things I did. I believe in You. I’m believing in You. I believed in You my whole life. Look Jesus, look look look.

And what is His response to these many? Vs 23. “And I will declare to them – I never knew you. Depart from Me you workers of lawlessness.”

I ask you dear readers, I plead with you Pastor Millar's followers, to read Mat 7:21-23 and see that these people make ABSOLUTELY NO CLAIM TO FAITH WHATSOEVER. These people commend themselves to God based on their real submission to His Lordship (as even Pastor Millar explains later in his sermon), to their obedience to Him, to their good works, to what they would see, and the Pastor is telling you to use to evaluate your salvation on - FRUIT.

Look please I beg you! Then listen to the Pastor's mocking voice as he talks about how these people claimed to have believed in Jesus their whole lives. There will be a point at the end of his sermon where his sincerity becomes absolutely clear. However, this moment we are examining right now is shockingly cold.

Let me spell this out, though I know most everyone reading already gets it. These people in Mat 7:21-23 whom the Lord will cast into the Lake of Fire, thought they were truly His because they did good things. They did MIGHTY things. What have YOU done for the Lord that will give you assurance if these that prophesied, cast out demons  and did MIGHTY works in His Name would have had FALSE ASSURANCE because HE NEVER KNEW THEM. What must his audience have been thinking at that point? I'm not that good... I'm not saved. Where does that lead a person? We'll see in the next passage but consider "Unless you abide in Me, you can do nothing." He who thinks he's not saved, isn't going to be growing in Him.

Pastor Millar then goes on to say that when your salvation is real that God comes in and He begins to change you - and I have no argument with that. He does, but that will look differently in every Believer and is not an accurate indicator of Salvation.  He says that Col 1:21-23 is a good example of his view. 

He reads Col 1:21-22 and then he says, again starting out in a mocking tone;

"You're saying they're saved! They're reconciled! But you have to keep reading. Verse 23 you're reconciled if indeed you continue in the faith stable and steadfast. Not shifting from the hope of the Gospel. Now listen I'm not saying you're adding works to salvation. I'm not saying because you continue in the faith that makes you saved. No I'm saying you're really saved you will continue in the faith. (someone in the crowed says "amen" to this) You need to look at that. You need to examine that. You need to see if God has truly saved you, transformed you, if you are really born from above then you will conti...not perfectly, you'll stumble, you'll fall but there'll be some direction there. Or something.  (long silent pause) It's just very important that we understand..." 

Give 2Pet 1:5-11 a read. How does the fact that those who have had their sins cleansed can get so far off the mark that they forget about it fit with how the Pastor explains Col 1:23? It cannot fit with it. Peter says we must ADD to our faith virtue, and to virtue knowledge, and to knowledge self-control, and to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, to your brotherly kindness - love.

Peter shows us how to mature in the faith. The Pastor would have you believe that "saving faith" is a faith that contains these things, it changes you, makes you obey God, makes you persevere. But the Apostle Peter, who not only was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write these exact words, knew a thing or two about what it is like to get lost along "the Way." Peter says that we ADD these to our faith. Just like James explains in James 2, that works animate faith. Just like Paul explains that we are saved by Grace, through faith, apart from works - and we are are born in Christ to do good works. Our works add to our faith, not result from it, or are part of it.

If we don't add works, and maturity to our faith? Well we can get so lost as to forget that we were saved by Christ. Maturity is our responsibility. If we do these as Peter states then well have an abundant entrance into Heaven. We will receive much reward at the Judgment Seat of Christ. But if we do not? Well then though we have been saved, and will enter into Heaven as though by fire, we in this life can become blind to the point that we may even forget that our sins have been cleansed. 


In short, Pastor asked his audience what John 14:15 "really means." Well Peter gives a pretty good answer. If you love Him, which is to say you have added all maturity to your faith, then you will keep His commandments. Not just if you have saving faith, but if you have maturity. 


In fact; Col 1:23 is exactly like 1Cor 15:2 "if you hold fast that message I preached to you" the salvation is not conditioned on holding fast, but this is the same message that I told you before. In 1Cor 15:2 we read of this happening in Acts 18:8. They believed, or received, the Gospel and so they were baptized. 

Jumping ahead now, after Pastor Millar gives 5 specific questions to his audience by which he believes they can test the validity of their faith he tells them if they want more tests that they should read 1st John. He then reads 1Jn 5:13 in this way;

"I write these things to you who believe... (takes a pause and then continues with a tone of correction) 'profess to believe' (takes another pause) in the name of God. That you may know that you have eternal life."

The Pastor inserted his own words into Scripture at best. To me it sounds like he's correcting the thought. No Believer with a Bible should have stood for this at the time of the preaching. Back in our discussion of John 8 we saw that the Pastor, by his interpretation of the passage, had God the Holy Spirit saying that a group of people believed and God the Son saying that they didn't. As shockingly wrong of an interpretation as that was, at least that time God the Son was quoted as saying the ones who refused to believe in Him were sons of the devil. This time, in 1Jn 5:13, God the Holy Spirit says that they are believers, and addresses them as "My Little Children" 1Jn 2:1 Hardly the description you would expect God to use of those who are or may be "sons of the devil."

This may be a dramatic reason not to use the verse as the Pastor does, but it is not the most compelling.

The verse actually reads "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have Eternal Life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God."

Several things stand out to me that show the Pastor's application of the verse is flawed. First of course, it's written to those who believe not to those who profess to believe, want to know if they believe, or may believe.. Or are thinking about believing... Second, his purpose in writing is that we may "know" we have Eternal Life. Not suspect that we have it based on a subjective test that will give different results depending on when you take it and what kind of mood you're in.  Third, it's written that we may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. Which is of course related to 2Peter 1:5-11 again. Why is John writing to us? That our joy may be full. 1Jn 1:4 which it will be if we continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

In 1Jn 5:13 there are two instances of the word believe. The first is constructed as a Present Active Participle which is to say John wrote this to those who "are believing." The second is constructed as "may or may not continue to believe" Present Active Subjunctive. Those who really did believe (had saving faith) may or may not continue to believe.

It's written so that we may know, or perceive that we are saved. How do we know we're saved? Because; God is faithful and just! Jesus Christ is the propitiation for our sins! And not only our sins, but for the sins of the whole world! 1Jn 2:2 Notice that 1Jn 2:2 is the justification of 1Jn 2:1 that Jesus Christ is our advocate if we sin. He's paid it all is what John is telling us. The letter is written to new believers who just struggle, to maturing believers who are starting to overcome and to fully mature believers who are now "fathers" in the faith. The new believer, or the immature believer, who is struggling with sin does not need to doubt his salvation, he needs to be convinced of the sufficiency of Christ's payment at the Cross. In order to mature, to be sanctified, we must first come to the confidence that our sin is dealt with. So long as a child doubts his father is his dad he can never actually walk after him - or Him. Perhaps when Pastor was preaching on John 3:16, and John 3:36 (see Part 2) he should have also read John 3:18. Maybe when he gets to John 20:31 he will change his mind (or to put it biblically - repent). 

Find more about 1st John and assurance here and make sure you check out the resource that I link to here.

I know this article, and the others have been long. We're almost done though!

After what we've looked at so far in this part, it may be shocking for you to find out that Part 5 will start with me largely agreeing with Pastor Millar. We'll look at his suggested 5 questions for testing one's salvation, and another 2 that he adds after. We'll find out that he doesn't have a great deal of confidence in this test, and what his suggested solution or solutions are to those who "fail the test." There's also going to be a specific listening assignment because I want you all to hear Pastor Millar's sincerity, and what is missing from his sermon.

God willing Part 5 will be up by the weekend, and will include what I think the Bible has to say about all of this.

Part 5 (the conclusion) can be found here.

'BUT' Theology - Part 3

Imaged removed
to spare those who may stumble.

This Part 3 of my response to the sermon preached by Pastor Norm Millar at Harvest Bible Chapel in London Ontario on 26 Sept 2010 entitled "Knowing Where You Stand With Jesus." If you have come directly to this post, please read Part 1 first because the context of Pastor Millar's sermon is fully explained there and mostly in his own words. Then read Part 2 which covers most of his strongest arguments.
Before I pick up with some more of the passages he cites, most of them very briefly, now is a good time to address the elephant in the room.

Pastor Millar is not young in the faith. He has earned at least one degree from The Master's Seminary, and fills the position of Senior Pastor & Elder of a large church in the very popular and well known "Harvest Bible Chapel" family of churches.  He's not a novice. In some cases the passages he cites have had a long history of debate about their meaning, in just a couple of these I can understand the debate to some extent. However, in the majority of cases, someone who is not a novice with the Scriptures ought to know better.  The Pastor obviously holds his position passionately. I cannot speak to his intentions but I can speak to the fact that it is not wise to base a position on the blatantly wrong interpretation of many passages, and the commonly held and debated interpretations of a couple of passages. Especially when it deals with a subject like the Gospel or Salvation. My purpose in writing this series of articles is not to disparage the man, but to reach any of those who follow him (and other like minded teachers) before they become unrecoverable.

There's still a lot of ground left to cover in his 43 minute sermon. It's much easier, and quicker, to cite a passage in error than it is to explain it properly. I know the length of these articles will limit the audience they reach. However, I'm writing for an audience of One, and any He draws.

After Pastor Millar discusses 1Jn 3:23-24 (were we left of last in Part 2) he moves on to a rapid fire session of citing passages with very little comment; having already laid a foundation of understanding in his audience guiding them to believe that belief is obedience, or at least includes obedience. I however cannot gloss over the passages he speeds through because I don't have his same luxuries.

Acts 5:32 he says means that God only saves those who obey God.

Acts 5 starts with the fearful recounting of what God did to Ananias and Sapphira when they lied to the Holy Spirit by making false statements to Peter. Next we learn that people laid the sick along the road where Peter would walk so that his shadow might fall on them so they would be healed. When more people heard about these things a great multitude gathered to be healed. When the Jewish High Priest found out what was going on he had Peter and companions put in jail. That night an angel came to Peter and said “Go, stand in the temple and speak to the people all the words of this life.” Acts 5:19-20

Peter was not only saved, he was "filled" with the Holy Spirit. Pastor Millar only quotes the end of what Peter says and also teaches on it out of context. This is the very definition of Proof-Texting.

The High Priest reminds Peter that he had explicitly commanded them NOT to preach about Jesus Christ in Acts 5:28. Peter's full response is found in Acts 5:29-32. Here we see that Peter is talking about his own obedience to God in preaching the Gospel, as the Angel commanded him to do, instead of staying quiet the way the High Priest had commanded him. Peter had such a powerful ministry, he was given or "filled with" the Holy Spirit because he obeyed God and not man.

Acts 5:32 is not at all expressing what Pastor Millar uses it for.

Next he says that there is a good example of his teaching in Rom 2:1-8. At first look I find the passage a strange one for him to quote because of the fact that he didn't want his congregation knowing what he had done all week... Verse 1 reads "Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things." But as I read it became clear why he quotes it. Rom 2:7-8 is his focus. Now I'd like to remind you that he claims not to be adding obedience to the Gospel, but here he is using this passage to say that God only gives eternal life to "those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality" Now if this is what you tell a sinner they must do to be saved, then that is most surely works based salvation, no matter how emphatically the Pastor claims otherwise. The word rendered as "immortality" in the NKJV is actually incorruptibility. Darby renders the verse this way "to them who, in patient continuance of good works, seek for glory and honour and incorruptibility, life eternal."

Why is this important? Back up to verse Rom 2:6 speaking about God in His judgment. That He renders to each according to their works. When is He going to do this? When we are in Heaven, that's when we will be given rewards based on the things we have done in the flesh - whether good or evil. Paul explains this to the Corinthians in 2Cor 5:9-10, and of the same function, with a slightly different context  we see the same sort of impartiality of judgment being taught by Paul in Rom 14:10-13 Of course here he's talking about Christians judging each other for how they serve God. We would do well to camp in this chapter for some time.

In short Romans 2 is not telling sinners that in order to be saved they must endure in good works. It's telling high minded Gentile sinners, and Jewish sinners alike that God will judge them with impartiality. That all will be "rewarded" at judgment for what we have done. Those of us who look forward to resurrection ( to incorruptibility in Heaven) will receive our rewards for our good works there, but those who do not have that hope will receive condemnation in the Lake of Fire.

That's a lot of explanation for a verse he only mentions in passing, I suggest you read the whole chapter of Romans yourself, and 1Peter 1:13-21 as well.

Next up is Romans 6:16 with which he equates obedience leading to righteousness as obedience leading to Eternal Salvation. Need I remind you once again that he claims over and over again to NOT be saying one obeys in order to become saved? It is clear from the passage, which is actually the chapter in full, that the people he's writing to have a choice about obedience. Again and again this is clear in the passage. In Rom 6:22 we find explicitly that these people have in fact been saved. They are not mere professors as Pastor Millar appears fond of accusing people of being, no not at all! Paul says of these people, in Rom 6:17-18 "But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness." What did they obey? The doctrine that had been delivered to them the Gospel of Jesus Christ. 1Cor 15:3-4. Obeying the Gospel is believing it. Rom 10:16 and Isa 53:1. Not living a life of obedience.

Now is a good moment to bring up that the Pastor is employing what I call an "Elephant Gun Argument" in Fail-Safe For Fallacy.  In short, a teacher will wear down his audience with his double barrelled citing of a huge amount of verses with very little explanation. The listener is not able to challenge each verse and eventually most people listening to this kind of argument will just give in. The man must be right... look at how many verses support his view! This sort of teaching does great abuse to the weaker Brethren who trust their teachers.

Hebrews is a challenging book. It is especially hard to overcome the bad teaching so many of us have been exposed to.

Hebrews 5:9 he says explains that God only saves those who obey Him, and if you read only that verse it sure does sound like that. Sort of like if you only read Mark 16:16 you might think that you need to be baptized in order to gain Eternal Life.  Heb 5:9 says that God is the cause of salvation for all who obey Him, and interestingly enough this is the exact same statement as we saw in John 3:36. See this Bad Kool-Aid post for an explanation. He has been made the High Priest by God, which is the point of the passage, and when we obey Him we believe His testimony of Himself about Himself. Just the same as John 3 tells us. Also, look at Heb 4:9-11 that the obedience is for us to enter into rest. There can be no assurance if you base it on your performance. What's more, the focus Hebrews is not much getting saved but being sanctified. Read Heb 5:12-14 and the continued thought in Heb 6:1-3. The Writer of Hebrews is bringing believers to the topic of perfection in the faith, not teaching about how to get, be or know if you're saved.

Last on the menu for this part of the series; Pastor Millar brings up James 2:14-26 and claims that James the Brother of the Lord Jesus Christ says that true saving faith works. This is also a passage that has become exceedingly difficult to understand because of multitudes of teachers who inflict exactly the opposite of what James said on the Church. I have a detailed post entitled James 2 From The Text which ought to be helpful. James actually, factually, said that the one who says "show me your faith by your works" was being foolish! James himself never taught that concept as truth!

The Pastor quotes James 2:24 and notes that it says that a person is justified by works, not just by faith alone. Remember that the Pastor claims not to preach that salvation by works. However, he claims that James says that Eternal Salvation (Pastor's context, not James') is not by faith alone, but also by works. Confused? James is talking about justification before men, and the perfecting of a person's faith (not the proving of it, as the Pastor inserts into the Text here).

The perfecting of a person's faith is what James is teaching about. The animation of faith with works, so that it is profitable for others as well.

Pastor Millar applies James 2:26:

"He concludes in verse 26 for as the body apart from the spirit is dead so faith apart from works is dead. So how do you know you're a Christian? It's a crucial question, how do you know you have saving faith?"

It's another complicated problem with his presentation of the Text that can be hard to understand, so for a very clear and detailed examination I suggest that you read Dr. Fred Lybrand's Back to Faith. However, here's an exert from the book from pg 99-101.

The final interpretive issue is found in the analogy in James 2:26. The analogy involves the relationship between the body and the spirit, making the simple point that when a body does not have a spirit, the body is dead. Those who hold to the cliché tend to misunderstand this as a simple reiteration of dead faith, and while apparent, they miss the nature of the analogy. Again, the analogy is that when the spirit is removed from the body, then the body is dead. It shows an intimate relationship between the two. Those who hold to the cliché tend to speak in terms such that a moving and active body shows that there is a spirit within, the two are inseparable, as are faith and works.  In their understanding, they see the activity of the body as paralleling works, while the hidden nature of the spirit parallels faith. In offering the analogy this way, it seems to perfectly explain their concern, such that they insist “that faith proves itself by works” just as “the spirit proves itself by the body.”

The problem is that James’s example is the exact reversal of the way in which those who hold to the cliché understand it. James parallels the body with faith and the spirit with works. In other words, it is not that the spirit animates the body, and so faith animates works; rather it is that the works are that which animate, or give life, to the faith. Kierkegaard noticed this fact and has this view labeled as a “new interpretation,” Kierkegaard provides a new interpretation, based on the sola fide principle, for the epistle of St. James:

‘When James says: just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead (2,26) – one might rather reverse the order and say: so also works without faith are dead; for faith, apparently, corresponds rather to the spirit, and works rather to the body, than conversely.’ (X:1 A457).

It is noteworthy that Kierkegaard’s understanding of sola fide allowed him to see what has always been apparent in the text. Those who hold to the cliché need the verse to read conversely: “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so works without faith are dead also.” In essence, James is not so much talking about sequence, if faith then works, but rather combination, faith plus works. The combination of faith plus works is not to secure salvation from hell to heaven, but to propel the spiritual growth of the already-saved by giving fullness to a faithful walk with God, and a warning for avoiding “death” through the failure to add works to one’s faith.

It is always more complicated to explain why something someone is teaching is wrong than it is to simply teach a point wrongly. We've made great progress though. There are only three more passages which the Pastor uses in his sermon. Mat 7, Col 1:22-23 and 1Jn 5:13.

We'll get to those passages, and deal with the 5 questions he tells his audience to use in evaluating whether they are saved or not. I'll be focusing on the special problem of why he back peddles at the end of his sermon to say that he's not saying they are not saved if they faith the test.

The finish line will come in Part 5 as I look at his proposed solution to those who will fail his test, and what I believe the Bible truly has to say about all of this.

Of course, my plans are most subject to the immutable will of God. So all my boasting aside this series will continue and finish as God allows.

Please find Part 4 here.

'BUT' Theology - Part 2

Imaged removed
to spare those who may stumble.

This is Part 2 of my response to the sermon preached by Pastor Norm Millar at Harvest Bible Chapel in London Ontario on 26 Sept 2010 entitled "Knowing Where You Stand With Jesus."  If you have come directly to this post, please read Part 1 first because the context of Pastor Millar's sermon is fully explained there and mostly in his own words.

Last time I went through the introduction to the sermon, and the context of what he was preaching about. I had to do a lot of quoting, and the article got long. This time I'm going to be dealing with his arguments.  I will quote him briefly and answer as explicitly as seems reasonable.

Pastor Millar's sermon is his application of John 14:15 and we previously left off with his shocking assertion of how we receive Eternal Salvation:

It's all of grace and it's all of faith. It's believing. We affirm that completely. BUT....."

To ensure all reading understand why putting the word "but" after such a statement is so shocking I have to remind everyone of the definition of the word.

Definition: "But"

Conjunction;

On the contrary; yet: My brother went, but I did not.

So according to Pastor Millar, Salvation is all of Grace and all of Faith, but on the contrary.... He's about to disagree with his statement. And so he must, if his audience is to understand the upcoming quotes of passages the way he wants them to. He'll hide his disagreement by pretending he is amplifying the statement using the Biblical definition of belief. Perhaps "hide" and "pretend" are strong words, in some cases I can easily believe he has been led astray by his mentors. In other cases I cannot sympathise with his handling of the Text. It's our responsibility, mine, yours and his audience's, to determine if he does in fact offer a biblical definition or not. As he pointed out at the beginning of this sermon, and reminds his audience again at the end - calling someone to examine themselves is the right thing to do. I'm taking him at his word on this.

Pastor Millar says;

"we must be careful to define believing biblically - that's the key." 

He immediately explains that James 2:19 says that we can have a demonic like faith that does not save. It's a false belief. He asks with passion; "the demons aren't saved are they?" He'll return to James 2:14-26 later in the sermon and I'll respond more fully there.  The idea of a "Demonic Faith" is Bad Kool-Aid, and there is a very short answer to this abuse of Scripture.

Next up he discusses John 8:30-42 and says that in verse 30 we find Jews believing in/on Jesus but in verse 44 says they are of their father, Satan, and so obviously not saved.  When evaluating the truth of a doctrine it is very important that you believe the Bible, and hold to it unwaveringly. I admit that when I heard Pastor Millar explain this passage I was shocked. I thought to myself; "Wow... there's someone who believed in Jesus Christ but who was not saved... I can't believe it!" Why did I think this? Because I allowed Pastor Millar authority, so much as to even falsify part of Scripture, instead of letting Scripture have the authority. Shame on me!

Here's his explanation: In Jn 8:30 many Jews believe. In Jn 8:31 Jesus speaks directly to these Jews who believed in Him and tells them that if they abide in His word that they are His disciples indeed (which Pastor Millar equates with being truly saved) and in Jn 8:32 that they will know the truth and the truth will set them free. Then in Jn 8:33 they answer him saying they have never been enslaved. The Lord then engages them, and by Jn 8:44 He tells them that they are of their father, Satan, so they never truly believed in the first place. It was a false belief, or an unsaving belief. They were professors, not disciples.

Sounds convincing right? Do you remember (like I asked you to) the benefit of the doubt I gave Pastor Millar in Part 1? He was speaking to his whole congregation, and the untold numbers of people who will listen online, and said that they would probably be glad that he didn't follow them around to secretly watch everything they did. I wrote that he might be addressing part of his audience, those who could be false converts, because by his standard set out up to that point the true converts shouldn't have been fearful of such a thing.  Well, this is a similar situation here with Jesus and His audience.

Jesus was speaking to groups of Jews of various sects. The issue is who is the "they" in Jn 8:33. If it is the same Jews that John said believed, and then Jesus later says they didn't believe then we find a  contradiction in the Scriptures. For nothing is said here of the quality of belief, but simply that they believed. John says they did, rather God the Holy Spirit through John's pen says that they believed but God the Son would have said that they did not. Jn 8:45-46

So what's the truth? The entire incident is found in John 8:12-59. The Pharisees are challenging Him as He teaches the crowd. Many Jews in the crowd believe, but the Pharisees continue to challenge Him. Those who believed can not also have not believed. It is Pastor Millar's addition to the Text that says it was a false belief, this is not explained or implied in the Text at all. Adding such a view to the Text makes either God the Holy Spirit or God the Son a liar.

A fuller explanation of this can be found in Dr. Bing's Dissertation here, scroll down to just past half the page to the bolded title "John 8:30-31" and read from there.

Next up is John 2:23 and Pastor Millar explains that Jesus did not entrust Himself to them because He knew what was in man and that this means their belief was a false unsaving belief.  I have to wonder what this phrase "did not entrust Himself to them" actually means. Does God "entrust Himself" to people when He saves them? If this is what it means then I need to wonder at the Scriptures' explanation of why He choose not to entrust Himself to these particular people - "because He knew what was in man." Does He find something different, less offensive perhaps, in the people He chooses to save? Is not Salvation by grace or "unmerited favor"? NO this is not what the passage is about. The Lord Jesus Christ was performing signs as He was announcing Himself as Messiah the Prince, the King of the Jews. Not as the propitiation for our sins, the Lamb of God. These men would have sought to raise Him up as an earthly King. See John 6:15 That's what is in men.

Another helpful tidbit to help us understand the difference between Jesus announcing Himself as Messiah the Prince to Israel, and the Lamb of God to the whole world is found in Mat 16:13-20 and then the very famous Mat 16:21-23. Israel had finally fully rejected Messiah the Prince. The Lord asks His disciples "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?" Then He tells them in Mat 16:20 not to tell anyone that He is the Christ, the Messiah.  From that time on, He BEGINS to tell them the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. News to which Peter famously reacts most strongly to. Mat 16:21-23

The men in John 2:23 did not demonstrate a false belief, they believed they could have their desire for a kingdom again met in this miracle working Man. This passage has nothing to do with Eternal Salvation, and should not have that topic forced on it by those who would seek to teach it.

The next verse he cites is John 3:36, he talks about the famous John 3:16 and then says that verse 36 is in the same context. He says;

"You must come to grips with this. There is a belief that does nothing....." "We're not adding works, but you've got to wrestle this through." 

He explains that this verse tells us only those who are obedient are saved. If you just read that verse alone I'm sure one could think this. However, such a statement is Bad Kool-Aid and a very simple an rebuttal of this fallacy is found here. The Pastor here does great violence to the context of the Text, so much so that those who know better ought to have rebuked the man to his face right then and there. Pastor Millar expressed in a comment under Part 1 that he doesn't like discussions and debates on blogs because God has ordered the local assemblies for that purpose. I actually have a lot of agreement with him on this. However, we read again and again in Paul's letters to the assemblies which we have preserved in the New Testament, that when an assembly fails to hold to truth that they get written to. I'm not raising my writing to that of Scripture - that's laughable... but I do say this. Had the godly men and women who know their Bibles in that assembly stood up and challenged their Pastor that day then I wouldn't be writing this blog article. 

Pastor Millar is seeking to explain the application of John 14:15 and quotes this passage over and over throughout the sermon. It serves as the emotional thrust for each of his arguments. He quotes the ESV, (not the NKJV that I link to most often) saying "If you love Me you will keep my commandments" over and over again.

At one point early in the sermon he wonders if his audience even knows what "commandments" the Lord is speaking about, but he fails to tell them at that point. Very near the end of his sermon he does get to 1Jn 3:23-24 but even then he doesn't make the connection for his audience. 1. Believe in the Name of Jesus Christ and 2. Love each other. What does the Pastor dwell on? What the commandments are? Sadly no. He dwells on "keeping commandments" speaking of obedience.

"Whoever keeps His commandments abides in God and God in them. Whoever keeps His commandments. Now again not Works Salvation don't keep His commandments to get saved but if you're really saved there'll be some keeping of His commandments."

This seems like as good a spot as any to stop for now. What we've seen so far is that it is easy to force your view on the Text, and that it takes careful examination of doctrine to determine if it is true or not. I believe this Pastor does want to see people saved and living holy lives for the Lord. Unfortunately his zeal for this combined with his training at The Master's Seminary and an on going association with Lordship Salvation proponents has resulted in his taking great, unwarranted, liberties with the Text.

Next time, in Part 3, I'll continue with his arguments in the Text; Acts 5:32, Rom 2:1-8, Rom 6:16, Heb 5:9 and James 2:14-26. Then, the Lord willing, I'll finish up the Textural arguments in Part 4. As I finish writing this part I it looks like this will be a 5 part series. God willing, the 5th part will be about his conclusion, and the solution he offers to those who "fail the test."

Please find Part 3 of this series here.