Monday, September 01, 2008

Thoughts on moderation here at OMW

Some recent incidents at mine and other blogs I frequent have caused me to consider the impression people might have when they see comments deleted and/or ignored. I try to moderate as little as possible. My primary concern will be protecting the weaker brethren from heresy or influential false teaching. If I delete something, it's probably because it's there is a high probability it would have harmed a weaker Brother or Sister.

If I ignore a comment... or an argument it may be for any of several reasons. Most often it is because "I've been down that trail before.." Not every argument needs to be answered every time. Not every complaint or topic is brought up to drive the conversation forward. With the very few people I have had any contention with I have found they often bait on side issues and cause conversations to drift in to long bouts of exposition instead of staying focused on the issue. In the future I hope to be more balanced in my response to this. It's important that real questions get real answers, but it's just as important that readers don't get lost in a swamp of smoke and fog.

So please participate, but remember most of the "hot topic" issues like Lordship Salvation and the Crossless Gospel and many others have been discussed here and elsewhere many times.


Sanctification said...

Hi Kevin,

Those are reasonable thoughts.... I sent you an email. Did you get it?

Thanks, Michele

Sanctification said...


Would you explain how you go about achieving the goals of your ministering the Word to those who need it?

At this time are you in a position of ministering the Word of God, to how many individuals, whose stance is a belief in a crossless and deityless gospel?

I can say there are quirky difficulties in the JW and Mormon and dead-works Christians I spend time discipling/evangelizing. I may even have personality incongruencies with them, but, it doesn't really matter to me because I am excited to watch them grow.

How do you take a view on your ministries?

Thank you, Michele

Kevl said...

Hello Michele,

My ministering here at OMW might be an overstatement. :) I tend to go beyond the bounds of what I think this blog is for from time to time. It's supposed to be about "my" walk and what "I'm" learning. So as to share the journey with others and encourage and gain encouragement.

Of course I have passions, like any one else I guess, and they dominate my conversation for seasons. From late last summer until this spring past I had felt burdened for firstly answering and secondly reaching those trapped in the sphere of the GES's teachings.

Currently I am passionate about error in the opposite direction. With my heart burning about the subject of Lordship Salvation.

Through OMW I suppose in a small fashion I minister to many people. Checking the webstats I see that people visit from around the Globe. I pray over countries and ask God for people to visit from them. After three years He has finally sent someone from Israel. :)

Through other outlets I minister the Word of God to thousands of people as part of a group of believers dedicated to preaching the Gospel and helping the Church unit in the preaching of the Gospel. Through this I minister to both the lost and the saved.

On an individual basis my ministry often comprises of answering concerns and questioning presupposition. I challenge individuals to be "more noble minded" so that they will not be tossed to and fro. This can get heated.. especially if I happen to have invested a great deal of caring into their life. Point in case - Bridget. I do not claim to be perfect.. or even very good at what I do. I just do it because I know I'm called of God to do it. In my weakness and confusion He is writing assurance and security for those who would call on His Blessed Name.

The problem with blogs.. and forums... and any like form of communication is it can be very hard to tell who is genuine and who is not. Bridget ought rightly giggle reading that last sentence.

If I feel someone is here to cause distraction, to steal away ministration from others, then I must deal with that. It's not that they have gone astray and I need go after them.. they are using their baiting of me to starve the rest. It's a tough thing to consider.. I don't know if you've faced it at your blog or not. I hope you will not have to it is not pleasant in the slightest.

I can leave the many and go after the one but I can not allow the one to poison the many...

I'm at a loss to come up with an adequate analogy.. but I'm fairly certain you understand me. I trust if you don't you'll ask. You do not seem to be shy about that. :)

Well surely spent a great deal of time talking about my self there... it is On "My" Walk after all I guess.. lol


Sanctification said...


I visited your blog a month or two ago and I was impressed with your attitude and love for the truth, I know it came to you at odds with circumstance. Again I am blessed by hearing a count of how you devote your life to God.

I understand that I have made myself very forward. But so far no one has told me to back off. It is not easy to do personally so I have not as of yet volunteered myself to the task. But I am willing, if the request is made.

In this particular case, I believe it was a mistake to think me dishonest.

May I make a case for myself? (--thank you--)

I can prove my honesty by four realms:

First, scripture, chronologically it was first but also it has the greatest import and influence, for me

Second, testimony, I've seen it's sanctioned in my own life

Third, experience in ministry, many people have shared the reality of a fact-disregarding nature to their salvation

Four, evidence of having surrendered all, both behavior and (where applicable) interpretation of scripture

I invite you to dispute the first three of these as deception on my part. That I expect, nay, desire. Could I have been made more full of reasons to think this gospel, God's?? Is there anything more He could have added to that list? I don't know, but I can't think of anything. What I do want to show you is that I have every reason to be confident. If you want to save me from my error, these realms are where I am at. How can I bridge the gap if I can't see how I could do so? Must I just take it on your word, that I am holding a place of heresy? Should man's word be my confidence? No -- I need the things you are confident in. You must therefore share them with me.

Be proud of me, as someone yourself who said they had to find the truth despite all the voices around them, to find it in the Word of God, that I have at least done that same thing myself! I'm not saying be proud where I have some error, but praise God with me that the only way to end up holding a free grace position, I think, happens by abandoning the Christian culture and intellectual heritage around us, and reading the Word alone. You have *that kind* of confidence, that *quality* of assurance. I'm no theologian, far, far from it. But allow me room to be confident reminiscent of the manner in which all of you are.

I haven't borrowed anything from anybody. I love God's Word. I think I prove it. I am willing to continue to prove it.

I'm not afraid of any man. What I fear, is God. And so how can I not be compelled to come to my "adversaries" and submit myself? It is a picture of Christ and I am honored to obey Him in this way.

You have made it very difficult on me in the portion that you and others have not received me. How tempting it is to be consoled by the other side, the side where I more or less belong. I still hold out. But I don't know how much or how long I can do so. I do not receive any encouragement to be here from those who believe roughly as I do. I was told in one point of contact with a crossless person that it would not bring benefit, that it was not a good idea. I am here only because I believe in this work and I have no other consolation.

I realize that you and your associates have most recently lost some people to the crossless position after much discussion. I am sure that hurts, honestly. You might be reconciled to think, "what's it matter if we lose one more?" But I am my own person. I want as big a chance as they got.

Thank you for listening, Michele

Kevl said...

I have made a new thread on the front of the blog to cover this conversation.


Sanctification said...

Hi Kevin,

When you're bored... or run out of things to respond to in the scripture thread... and waiting for a reply, I'd like to continue discussion on this. It's not as important. But I think it's interesting and I have a few ideas. If you let me share them, we can discuss whether you think they are in fact helpful and godly.

You said:
"I consider the impression people might have when they see comments deleted and/or ignored."

I often think about how I come across too.

Thank you, Michele

Sanctification said...

Hi Kevin,

If your answer might be yes, I'll continue, and if it is no, please delete this comment (I think you might say yes so I don't want to wait but forgive me if I was presumptuous.)

You mentioned people by name, and I know you care. I just want to encourage you. Don't let anybody ever tell you that you can't make a difference over the internet. It's a load of malarky and I hate it when I hear it because it's not true.

Don't give up. There are many reasons to take hope in the people with whom you are experiencing discord.


Sanctification said...

Tell me what you would do in my situation....

I have a neighbor who is a professed Christian, I have talked to her about God and her ideas of doctrine are pretty good. But though she has two sons she has been married to another woman for the last ten years. A couple years back there was a measure on the ballot for the rights of untraditional marriages. I have a pastor as a neighbor and he put a "no" sign in his lawn, denying the measure which grants those privileges. I'm going to vote no, but, do I need to put the same sign in my lawn, too?

What happens to the neighbor of mine who sees the lawn sign?

I want to say that I did not put that sign in. She knows that I believe the alternative lifestyle has been spoken to be sin in scripture, she knew that from the very beginning. She has come over a lot in the last few months because she kicked out her partner, is giving up the lifestyle of sin, is even giving up painkillers and smoking. Neat, huh? Anyway, because she comes to my house and hangs with me I can praise her and tell her "and you know if you do mess up, don't forget about grace. I say that all the time but it is hard to give it to myself. Though I think it is the very thing which helps us truly give up stuff."

Do you think there is a line to walk where we are between truth and the surrender of social privilege, or cultural identification, that glorifies God? Paul said I become like all so to not offend any and win them to Christ.

Am I neglecting the importance of identifying the sin if I don't put the sign in my lawn?

What would you do and why?

Thanks for your time and answers, Michel

Kevl said...

I wouldn't put a sign on my lawn saying "No" in relation to that issue because in my thinking I believe the sinner would perceive it the same way they would a person holding a sign saying "God hates you because _____" Insert whatever sin you like there...

It would be putting a stumbling block. However, I would surely vote no. And I would not be shy to tell people I was voting no and why.

But I would engage in conversations not bold statements that can only be interpreted through what the other person has learned from TV.. abuse... lies... and whatnot.

Peter tells us to answer for the faith that is in us in love. Paul tells us to preach the Gospel of Reconciliation.

One of the things every member of my ministry (TCC) has to agree to is not to be pointing out someone's sin without giving them the solution because that is abusive and potentially very harmful.

We MUST let people see their sin the way God sees it. But that's the key, how God sees it - not how we see it. We're just another sinner with a big ol plank of wood stuck in our eye. Let's let the Righteous Spirit of Christ convince and convict. We preach Truth and let the Spirit convict and convince.

Sin must be seen for what it is, so that the person can see their need, so they can honestly repent to Trust the Savior.


Sanctification said...

Hi Kev,

You pointed out your philosophy on sharing the truth with people at all times; in the case you and I are discussing at this time, ecumenism. I don't know if you'll notice me putting a post, here....

Here is the scripture I long for you to consider, Matt 17:14-21:

And when they had come to the multitude, a man came to Him, kneeling down to Him and saying, “Lord, have mercy on my son, for he is an epileptic and suffers severely; for he often falls into the fire and often into the water. So I brought him to Your disciples, but they could not cure him.”

Then Jesus answered and said, “O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him here to Me.” And Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him; and the child was cured from that very hour.

Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, “Why could we not cast it out?”

So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you. However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.”

I do believe there are times where faith is maximized when speech is minimized....

Let me know your reaction, Michele

Kevl said...

Hi Michele,

I don't know what you're getting at here. Sorry.. maybe I'm just not that swift. :)


Sanctification said...

Sorry Kev,

You left a comment in Lou's thread on Rose, and whether or not you thought it might be a good thing to pray, alone.

I'm glad you saw this note.


Kevl said...

I think I see what you're getting at. I don't see this scripture as a sort of direction to forsake action and only pray. It surely is indicating that we can't accomplish things without faith though.


Kevl said...

Michele, your little selective recounting of my words at JP's blog is a good example of another reason why moderation is required. Sometimes moderation is knowing that someone's purpose in participation is not inline with the purpose of this blog.