'BUT' Theology - Part 4

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to spare those who may stumble.

This Part 4 of my response to the sermon preached by Pastor Norm Millar at Harvest Bible Chapel in London Ontario on 26 Sept 2010 entitled "Knowing Where You Stand With Jesus." If you have come directly to this post, please read Part 1 first because the context of Pastor Millar's sermon is fully explained there and mostly in his own words. Then read Part 2 which covers most of his strongest arguments. Part 3 also deals with a large number of textual arguments, most of which the Pastor made in passing.

This sermon is intended to apply John 14:15 to the life of someone who professes to have faith in Jesus Christ. Pastor Millar asks you to examine yourself to see if you are in fact in possession of saving faith. I have been taking issue with the Pastor's interpretation of many passages, and definitely with his view of how someone knows if they are saved or not. I will cover his solution to those who fail the test he administers from the pulpit, and what I believe Scripture has to say about all of this as I conclude the series in Part 5. We have already covered a lot of ground, and in this part we will examine  how he applies three more passages of Scripture. Having completed this task we will have looked at all the support he cites for telling people to evaluate their salvation by their obedience.

Picking up where we left off last time. Pastor Millar speaks about a typical "professing Christian" and then states that the day before was notable for being a less than ideal day for his audience to have followed him around.

"If you followed me yesterday, oh man...."

Again I ask; how could that be? If you're a true "Christ Follower" then you'll obey His commands right? And if you're obeying His commands then you ought not be wary of having people watch you. Some will say that the man is simply being humble and graceful. They'll say that his embarrassment is probably over something which we would think of as very small. However, here is where the sermon starts to loose even it's philosophical power. How small can disobedience be that it does not require death? Is there a level of disobedience that is not  so evil that Christ had to be crucified to propitiate God's wrath for it?

"We're not talking about perfection, we're talking about a direction."

"You will obey Me, not every day...."

"Seasons of disobedience"

Please forgive me for being flippant but I guess the results of this "test" the Pastor is administering are greatly dependent on when you take it. 

He continues;

"We are talking bout some change. Some desire. Somethings happening."

Is this what the Lord said in John 14:15? "If you love Me you will have some desire to obey My commandments." I'll let you draw your conclusions. I'm sure there are some who think this is perfectly reasonable. Others will be offended by how flexible the Inspired Text appears to be in the Pastor's mouth.

He goes on and cites a book that his Pastor of Local Missions provided to him about the stats of people in Christendom (he means all the people who call themselves Christians). He gives a number of statistics about how poorly professing Christians seem to conduct themselves, at least based on the statistics he presents. I don't need to get into each stat, but there is one interesting one.

"Only 6% of Born Again Christians Tithe."

Whoah. That's a big topic...and probably one I should dive into at some point. Remember the Pastor is administering a TEST to his audience (congregation and untold numbers of online listeners) so they can determine IF they are actually saved or not. Perhaps this stat is presented to show that 94% of people who profess to be saved are not obeying Christ's commandments?


I have to ask the question, is there a single biblical record of Born Again Christians Tithing? Is there a single instruction to Christians in the Bible to Tithe? When the Pastor introduced John 14:15 at the beginning of his sermon he wondered if people even knew what commandments the Lord was talking about. Likewise, before you answer about Tithing I want you to determine if you know what Tithing actually IS, how it is actually DONE, and then determine if Christians do this or not.

The real important thing to detail is that the Pastor is saying it's a problem with our faith, or the Gospel we preach that is causing this problem in "Evangelicalism." He is presenting a logical fallacy known as a False Dilemma. Which is to say, he is not allowing his audience to consider all the possible sources of the problem. Might the problem be with how Evangelicalism is structured and run? Since discipleship, biblical correction and biblical separation are marginalized in a system where "if you don't obey you're not saved" there is no effective means to disciple a person. They are simply either obediently saved, or disobediently lost. If there is no effective discipleship there will be very little victorious living.

He says;

“There's something wrong...."

He's absolutely correct, though not in the context he meant it in. There's something wrong when those who God has cleaned are called dirty Acts 11:4-15, and those who God has freed are dragged into bondage. Gal 5:1 I'm getting ahead of myself, and we should get to the final textural arguments offered in the sermon.

Pastor Millar reads through and interprets most of Mat 7:13-26 He explains that we all understand that Jesus is “the Way” and the Gate of vs 13 & 14. His interpretation shows up starting at vs 15. 

Beware of the false prophets – these are people who profess to be Christian, believers, God followers, but they’re not they come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly they’re ravenous wolves.

Now look at vs 16 You will recognize them… by what? By what they say they are? By their fruits. How they live.  He says are grapes gathered from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? So every healthy tree bares good fruit but the diseased tree bares bad fruit. If you love me you will keep my commandments. If you truly love me there will be some fruit there. There will be some evidence of God in your life.

Look at vs 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. Vs 21 Not everyone, these are shocking words, not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

In his speech he connects Vs 21 to the previous verses, instead of the introduction of a new teaching point as most of us will be familiar with. What I find most amazing about how the Lordship Salvation proponent will use this verse is that they must truly expect us to just take their word for it. Do they think we will not open the Bible and read it for ourselves? 


This Pastor says he's not adding works to the Gospel, and that he's not talking about "perfection" but a "direction" in your life. Then he uses this verse - with is about FALSE PROPHETS not "False Believers"... it's about false prophets or those who give false witness to what God has said and done, and/or what He will do - to test people's salvation. And in so doing leaves out Vs 18. I cannot speak for the man's intentions, but as much Lordship Salvation spinning and twisting of the Scriptures as I have read over the years even I can't imagine how you could make "A good tree cannot bare bad fruit" anything less than sinless perfection - IF it does mean as the Pastor teaches "how they live their lives." If a "good tree" cannot "bare bad fruit" and a "good tree" is a "true Christ follower" (a true Christian in the Pastor's thinking) and bad fruit is sin - then the true Christian cannot sin. Of course I do not believe this for a second, and even Lordship Salvation proponents can't sell this to their people. So they are left with having to skip some verses and heavily interpret others. 

He’s talking about at a future time at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven but the one who does the will of My Father who is in Heaven. On that day, on Judgment Day, On that day many.  It’s just got to break your heart.  Many…  will say to me Lord, Lord did we not prophecy in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name and do many might works in Your Name?

OK as some who have listened to the sermon and emailed me know, I have decided to allow this man grace for getting a few things mixed up... because I can't honestly say that his slip ups were intentional. However, it is completely unthinkable that a trained, mature, Pastor who dares to teach God's Word would confuse the Judgment Seat of Christ with the Great White Throne Judgment.  Here's some more thoughts on this subject. Check out 1Cor 3:10-15 for a bit about the Judgment Seat of Christ. Notice that it does not AT ALL match what the Pastor taught. What's more it speaks of what those Christians who pervert the Gospel of Christ can expect to receive for reward at Judgment.

Now here is how he explains to his audience what the Lord is teaching in Mat 7:21-23.

In other words – Did we not serve at Church? Were we not part of the team? Did we not give money? Did we not help out? Lord, Lord did we not profess to be a follower of yours? That’s what He’s saying. Lookit Jesus all these things I did. I believe in You. I’m believing in You. I believed in You my whole life. Look Jesus, look look look.

And what is His response to these many? Vs 23. “And I will declare to them – I never knew you. Depart from Me you workers of lawlessness.”

I ask you dear readers, I plead with you Pastor Millar's followers, to read Mat 7:21-23 and see that these people make ABSOLUTELY NO CLAIM TO FAITH WHATSOEVER. These people commend themselves to God based on their real submission to His Lordship (as even Pastor Millar explains later in his sermon), to their obedience to Him, to their good works, to what they would see, and the Pastor is telling you to use to evaluate your salvation on - FRUIT.

Look please I beg you! Then listen to the Pastor's mocking voice as he talks about how these people claimed to have believed in Jesus their whole lives. There will be a point at the end of his sermon where his sincerity becomes absolutely clear. However, this moment we are examining right now is shockingly cold.

Let me spell this out, though I know most everyone reading already gets it. These people in Mat 7:21-23 whom the Lord will cast into the Lake of Fire, thought they were truly His because they did good things. They did MIGHTY things. What have YOU done for the Lord that will give you assurance if these that prophesied, cast out demons  and did MIGHTY works in His Name would have had FALSE ASSURANCE because HE NEVER KNEW THEM. What must his audience have been thinking at that point? I'm not that good... I'm not saved. Where does that lead a person? We'll see in the next passage but consider "Unless you abide in Me, you can do nothing." He who thinks he's not saved, isn't going to be growing in Him.

Pastor Millar then goes on to say that when your salvation is real that God comes in and He begins to change you - and I have no argument with that. He does, but that will look differently in every Believer and is not an accurate indicator of Salvation.  He says that Col 1:21-23 is a good example of his view. 

He reads Col 1:21-22 and then he says, again starting out in a mocking tone;

"You're saying they're saved! They're reconciled! But you have to keep reading. Verse 23 you're reconciled if indeed you continue in the faith stable and steadfast. Not shifting from the hope of the Gospel. Now listen I'm not saying you're adding works to salvation. I'm not saying because you continue in the faith that makes you saved. No I'm saying you're really saved you will continue in the faith. (someone in the crowed says "amen" to this) You need to look at that. You need to examine that. You need to see if God has truly saved you, transformed you, if you are really born from above then you will conti...not perfectly, you'll stumble, you'll fall but there'll be some direction there. Or something.  (long silent pause) It's just very important that we understand..." 

Give 2Pet 1:5-11 a read. How does the fact that those who have had their sins cleansed can get so far off the mark that they forget about it fit with how the Pastor explains Col 1:23? It cannot fit with it. Peter says we must ADD to our faith virtue, and to virtue knowledge, and to knowledge self-control, and to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, to your brotherly kindness - love.

Peter shows us how to mature in the faith. The Pastor would have you believe that "saving faith" is a faith that contains these things, it changes you, makes you obey God, makes you persevere. But the Apostle Peter, who not only was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write these exact words, knew a thing or two about what it is like to get lost along "the Way." Peter says that we ADD these to our faith. Just like James explains in James 2, that works animate faith. Just like Paul explains that we are saved by Grace, through faith, apart from works - and we are are born in Christ to do good works. Our works add to our faith, not result from it, or are part of it.

If we don't add works, and maturity to our faith? Well we can get so lost as to forget that we were saved by Christ. Maturity is our responsibility. If we do these as Peter states then well have an abundant entrance into Heaven. We will receive much reward at the Judgment Seat of Christ. But if we do not? Well then though we have been saved, and will enter into Heaven as though by fire, we in this life can become blind to the point that we may even forget that our sins have been cleansed. 


In short, Pastor asked his audience what John 14:15 "really means." Well Peter gives a pretty good answer. If you love Him, which is to say you have added all maturity to your faith, then you will keep His commandments. Not just if you have saving faith, but if you have maturity. 


In fact; Col 1:23 is exactly like 1Cor 15:2 "if you hold fast that message I preached to you" the salvation is not conditioned on holding fast, but this is the same message that I told you before. In 1Cor 15:2 we read of this happening in Acts 18:8. They believed, or received, the Gospel and so they were baptized. 

Jumping ahead now, after Pastor Millar gives 5 specific questions to his audience by which he believes they can test the validity of their faith he tells them if they want more tests that they should read 1st John. He then reads 1Jn 5:13 in this way;

"I write these things to you who believe... (takes a pause and then continues with a tone of correction) 'profess to believe' (takes another pause) in the name of God. That you may know that you have eternal life."

The Pastor inserted his own words into Scripture at best. To me it sounds like he's correcting the thought. No Believer with a Bible should have stood for this at the time of the preaching. Back in our discussion of John 8 we saw that the Pastor, by his interpretation of the passage, had God the Holy Spirit saying that a group of people believed and God the Son saying that they didn't. As shockingly wrong of an interpretation as that was, at least that time God the Son was quoted as saying the ones who refused to believe in Him were sons of the devil. This time, in 1Jn 5:13, God the Holy Spirit says that they are believers, and addresses them as "My Little Children" 1Jn 2:1 Hardly the description you would expect God to use of those who are or may be "sons of the devil."

This may be a dramatic reason not to use the verse as the Pastor does, but it is not the most compelling.

The verse actually reads "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have Eternal Life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God."

Several things stand out to me that show the Pastor's application of the verse is flawed. First of course, it's written to those who believe not to those who profess to believe, want to know if they believe, or may believe.. Or are thinking about believing... Second, his purpose in writing is that we may "know" we have Eternal Life. Not suspect that we have it based on a subjective test that will give different results depending on when you take it and what kind of mood you're in.  Third, it's written that we may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. Which is of course related to 2Peter 1:5-11 again. Why is John writing to us? That our joy may be full. 1Jn 1:4 which it will be if we continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

In 1Jn 5:13 there are two instances of the word believe. The first is constructed as a Present Active Participle which is to say John wrote this to those who "are believing." The second is constructed as "may or may not continue to believe" Present Active Subjunctive. Those who really did believe (had saving faith) may or may not continue to believe.

It's written so that we may know, or perceive that we are saved. How do we know we're saved? Because; God is faithful and just! Jesus Christ is the propitiation for our sins! And not only our sins, but for the sins of the whole world! 1Jn 2:2 Notice that 1Jn 2:2 is the justification of 1Jn 2:1 that Jesus Christ is our advocate if we sin. He's paid it all is what John is telling us. The letter is written to new believers who just struggle, to maturing believers who are starting to overcome and to fully mature believers who are now "fathers" in the faith. The new believer, or the immature believer, who is struggling with sin does not need to doubt his salvation, he needs to be convinced of the sufficiency of Christ's payment at the Cross. In order to mature, to be sanctified, we must first come to the confidence that our sin is dealt with. So long as a child doubts his father is his dad he can never actually walk after him - or Him. Perhaps when Pastor was preaching on John 3:16, and John 3:36 (see Part 2) he should have also read John 3:18. Maybe when he gets to John 20:31 he will change his mind (or to put it biblically - repent). 

Find more about 1st John and assurance here and make sure you check out the resource that I link to here.

I know this article, and the others have been long. We're almost done though!

After what we've looked at so far in this part, it may be shocking for you to find out that Part 5 will start with me largely agreeing with Pastor Millar. We'll look at his suggested 5 questions for testing one's salvation, and another 2 that he adds after. We'll find out that he doesn't have a great deal of confidence in this test, and what his suggested solution or solutions are to those who "fail the test." There's also going to be a specific listening assignment because I want you all to hear Pastor Millar's sincerity, and what is missing from his sermon.

God willing Part 5 will be up by the weekend, and will include what I think the Bible has to say about all of this.

Part 5 (the conclusion) can be found here.